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 A Mosque At Ground Zero

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TheNewHero
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PostSubject: RE: A Mosque at Ground Zero   Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:15 am

I've scanned all the comments and I think it's time I throw my two cents in. First of all I have to, before giving my opinion, ask you guys about something.

Ever heard of the Crusades? Ever read what the Christians did to everyone else? The cruelty? Ever seen a movie where Christian teenagers acted all snotty to that weird one in the bunch, instead of doing what the BIble would have them do? Okay, so maybe that's not reality. Why? Well Christiainity's not always the strongest religion anywhere at anytime now, and so it seems people are 'retaliating'. It all sounds silly, now pump it up to a grand scale and that's what I think's going on with Islam (Muslimness).

So, to us Christians, do we count ourselves along those people that murdered? No. And as other commentors have stated before, it wasn't the Muslims that attacked America. And now, you're all admitting that but you're not blaming anybody else. In fact, I didn't see one mention of Al-Qaeda or Osama bin Laden here.

Now, the situation in my eyes is that much of Islam has been twisted (or righted, I haven't read the Qu'ran) and it has resulted in a violent attitude because, to my understand, the Qu'ran echoes what you might here in a book like Deutronomy. God made those laws so people could be tough in a tough time. And beside, the punishment for sin was death, so it was either a sacrifice or a stoning, get it? Well there's no sacrifices today, and the violent nature depicted in those books... there's a reason Jesus taught peace, because people had taken the Bible and were killing people with it, sanctioning violence whether you'd sinned or not. I have yet to read a verse that ORDERS Christians to kill for God's sake. In fact, I DO remember a verse... vengance is mine.

Now, I don't know how it goes in Islam, but I assume it's the same as the Deutronomy thing. And I don't know what Mohammed taught, but he obviously wasn't Jesus so they must have had conflicting ideologies (I'm trying to take this from a non-biased view). Whatever the case, most of Islam is now listening to the 'Stone the Sinner'! bits as the Crusaders did. Because of that, we get radical groups like Al-Qaeda who try and keep up this anger to use against America. Why?

America have committed a number of atrocities. What I hate is that nobody (sometimes even Americans) ever realizes how much good they've done. It's always that they're the bad guys. 'No way... America's just fighting for oil, they don't actually care about people' It's sad, but true. The highest trees get the most wind. And now Al-Qaeda notice America have done some bad things in the past. In an effort to make a name for themselves and what they believe is making God proud, they take up a mission that will have headlines until the next World War (which is likely to be about the same thing anyway) - embarass and fool and mess up America. It is NOT Christians vs. Muslims. Saying so is an insult to where that's really happening. It's a conflict of ideologies.

And then, HOW are they perpetuating anger? They're lying to people. They're using little snippets of information. They're doing what some megachurches do to get money: they're trying to cheat God. And that can not happen. They're telling people about Guantanamo Bay and how America is ruining God's creation etc. It's a smear campaign that Bush did nothing to fix. Obama's trying to fix up America's image (I don't know if that's the best tactic but... he's the pres. He's got the info). Whatever the case, Obama's trying to show that Al-Qaeda are lying: 'Oh, America's the scourge of the earth huh? Why have we pulled out of Iraq? Why are we trying to train the police to handle it?' 'Why are we trying to do this or that then, huh?" And in this way he wants to calm everyone down. That's all it is: raging emotions.

Also, remember that President Bush had a lot of personality with 9/11 and all this. He was the new guy and they were messing up his image. He was not going to be Bush the Coward, and no one will ever name him as such now. And so... war.

So, there's two options: Bush or Obama. But there's only one goal, and it's a common goal: to STOP Al-Qaeda in its tracks.

Allowing the Mosque to be built - as I see it, that's American. And Scar was right... it's four blocks away! And I recall one person saying 'They can build a Mosque in Manhattan, when we can build a Church (or was it burgerstand?) in Mecca'. Manhattan is of nearly no religous importance as compared to Mecca. For the last decade years America's been fighting back. Perhaps it's time for a change of strategy? Perhaps its time to be more open?

As to building Mosques on the site of their victories... I don't know the truth in that, but if it is true you have to ask, is this guy really trying to do that. PLUS! It's not a mosque, it's a community center with ping-pong and counselling and stuff. He thought he's making peace. But if he is covering at up with 'peace' and 'community center' and he's trying to cause problems... he shouldn't have in the beginning. But he has. And this can only go bad or worse. Bad - build the community center and anger a few Americans, the same people that have been saving the world for the last decade and the same people that wouldn't launch a genocide campaign thank goodness. Worse - Don't build it and make it look as if America hates Islam etc. Give Osama bin Laden something to lie about and anger the people with tempers so short they have to look up to look down. (And worst) Build the community center and then demolish it or have some creepy American attack it... I pray that doesn't happen.

Personally, there's no chink in the Bill of Rights. It's all legal. It's not a mosque, it's a community center. Al-Qaeda won the battle but America will win the war. So humour them, their destruction is imminent. The 'greatest nation on earth' will figure out something rational to do. The key is to be informed. You need to know who Al-Qaeda is, Osama bin Laden. You need to know exactly what happened on 9/11. You need to be rational and calm, and realize that the Muslims were acting on the same emotion you are (that's right, they have emotions and feelings). You need to double-question: why would they attack us anyway. We must have done something or else they ARE mad. What were we doing in Iraq. Have I forgotten that our president kept a lot of secrets from us? There is information that I should consider, but cannot. etc.

Anyway, this was just my take. As to my opinion - it doesn't matter what they do, someone will get hurt. And I know the Americans will get angry and I understand about your friends that died. But as far as I know there's no Middle Eastern person here to complain about America. It requires peace. And the best peace is passive. Don't deny them their pride. Let them build the mosque. Let them boast. Pride comes before the fall.

God bless,
TheNewHero.

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Rachelle41
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PostSubject: Re: A Mosque At Ground Zero   Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:59 pm

This is like the iron curtain all over again. Some people I don't think really care, or are so sure we'll win the war that they don't really care. I think we need to understand the reality that if the Middle Eastern people do win the war, were'll all toast. Everyoe thnks America seems so indesturctable, well, we aren't. People have attacked us before. Pearl Harbor, for exanple? And has no one heard about the ballon bombs of the forties? Yeah, Japan bombed us once bad at Pearl Harbor, but they tried to continue their bombing spree by attaching bombs to mini hot air ballons and fly them across the ocean. People got killed by those things, too, even though most of it as after the war. We're not indestructable, we can loose wars. Maybe if we do loose, we'll all wish wehad built the mosque. Or hopefully we'll win and the musilms can at least understand that it's not really hard feelings towrad their religous group, but it's close to a sore spot in American history. I think world peace isn't completly acheviable, but we can at least stop all the killing and such because of religon and differences. Yes, people might not understand, bt that doesn't man we have to attack them. Now, if the world could learn to see it that way, life would be different. Al-Qaeda hates freedom, and anything that lets people have any sort of power. Tha is why they attacked the Twin Towers and attempted to attack the Pentagon. Now, there might always be people like that in the world that want to cause trouble, and we think "Oh, we can't look like whims, so lets attack them back." Well you know what? Sometimes we need to act like whimps and realize "Is this really worth causing a war over?" Osama bin Laden doesn't like freedom or people power, so he's going to try to stop us. We are a strong nation, and even if they do win, we will always be able to say "We tryed. We fought, we showed we won't give up easily. Just because you win now doesn't mean you'll keep us." But hopefully we'l win, and we can say "We won not because we are bigger or stronger, although those were factors. We won because we love our country, and we don't go down without a fight. We like our freedom, and we believe that no one should have to be opressed. We believe that everyone has the ight to freedom."
-Rachelle41 I love you
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grace1096
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PostSubject: Re: A Mosque At Ground Zero   Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:42 am

Haha. Wow Hero. I liked your mini-novel there. Smile Very well-put.
And Tobi? I gotta say, you have put out some amazing ideas. Same with Rachelle. You guys obviously feel very strongly about your opinions which I think is awesome! See? THIS is what the world should be like. People just talking out their different opinions! This is where I have to disagree with Rachelle and give a little high-five to Tobi. I can see that you don't ADORE the idea of a mosque (actually, Hero is right, it IS just a community center, thus Hero recieves a righeous chest-bump from me. Nice catch!), but you abviously understand the idea of just dropping the sword and walking away. I love this quote from Tobi's latest reply...

"I'm sick of pride. Forget pride. Leave pride in the Sahara desert to dry up and die. Sometimes it isn't pride ya' need, but integrity, and the will-power to bend a little here and there, make a few compromises. Maybe that's what we need: a compromise."

I really like that because Rachelle believes that world peace isn't totally acheivable. I am not saying this is wrong, because it is actually a very observant thing to say. From what we know, there IS no such thing as world peace. For as long as humans have lived, we have fought. Be it over a dead animal carcass, religion, political power, land, or a tussel outside a bar, we are constantly pointing fingers and bringing violence into the equation. Can't we just quit arguing over who has the bggest gun and get over ourselves? You don't have to adore your neighbor to be peaceful with them. Sometimes you have to just bite your lip and walk away. If everyone in the world could do that, we would have peace. Now, I know that is pretty far away from what we have now, but hey! America IS one of the most powerful countries out there! Couldn't we, as Demi Lovato and Joe Jonas say, "Make a Wave?" Wink I hate to quote the Disney Channel, but it's true.

~grace1096
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Rachelle41
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PostSubject: Re: A Mosque At Ground Zero   Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:38 pm

Grace, you are absolutly right. Sometimes we need to bite our lips and keep things in, which I have done more times than I can count. Sometimes we have to compromise, and reallize that we have to coperate with people. The reason I'm so opposed to the mosque is because radicals killed people so close, and even though that might not be all musilms, and most might be peaceful, it's still a sore spot. I wish they could just respect that it's just to close for comfort, and build it somewhere else. It may be part comunity center, and there might be a pool and a cafe and that kind of stuff, but people will still worship there. I understand that they have that freedom, and I'm glad we all have that freedom, it's just...hard to explain. If we ran into one of their tall buildings, and say it was radical Cathloics( no offense intended) they wouldn't want a Catholic church being built close by. I guess they can have a mosque, it's one of their rights as American citizens, but just not so close. I wish they could understand that the people protesting don't hate Islam or musilms. We worship and love God just as they do. We're protesting because it's so close to where we lost so many to the radicals of their religon. It's not as if we hate them and want to rid the world of every muslims we can find. The mosque just feels a bit too close for comfort, that's all. I think if they knew that, they might consider moving the mosque. they're Americans, too. They have patriotism and love for our country. They just need to be informed, and maybe then they'll change their minds.
-Rachelle41
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grace1096
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PostSubject: Re: A Mosque At Ground Zero   Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:00 pm

You are right, Rachelle! It is a very sore spot for our entire country, and they will still worship there. But what does the fact that they will or will not worship have to do with anything? If they did not worship there, and just played basketball or ping-pong or whatever, would it no longer be an issue? I don't think so. They are doing things in that community center that other Americans do even CLOSER to Ground Zero every day, such as talk with friends, play games, learn about their faith, and pray! I don't think it matters that they are Muslim, because, as we have mentioned before, the extremists have nothing to do with the Muslims here in the USA. I think of it as a car dealership being built a few blocks down from the sight of a devistating car wreck. Yes, I know that many more people died during 9/11 than in a car wreck, but do you get my picture? Yes, the two places are connected, but by a microscopic string that could easily be broken if we just, as we said, bite our lip and walk away.

~grace1096
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